Study… or else

By: David M. Patt, CAE | Association Executive Management

If association professionals were tested on their knowledge, there would be few, if any CAEs.  Even Executive Directors – who often think they know everything (yes, I’m one of them) – don’t know everything.

Studying is how you acquire the knowledge you’ll need to pass the CAE exam.  And joining a study group will improve your ability to learn.

I participated in a study group hosted by Association Forum of Chicagoland (the fee was reasonable).  It was walking distance from my office and I usually stopped at a nearby food court on the way to pick up a couple slices of pizza (one for me, one for a colleague) so we could scarf down something quickly, before the sessions began.

Tips:

1.  Join a study group.  Even if you are not accustomed to studying with others (I wasn’t), the collaborative learning process will help you and will prevent you from falling behind or being negligent in your studies.  And study group facilitators are excellent content resource people.

2.  Don’t skip study group sessions.  Rearrange your work schedule (to the extent possible) so you can attend all of the sessions.  The study group is an essential activity, not an extra.

3.  Schedule a specific time and place each week to read the reference materials.  Treat it like a very important meeting.  Don’t skip it or reschedule it.  If you don’t study during that time, you won’t be able to study at all.  I hunkered down in my local library every Saturday from 1:00 to 5:00 p.m.  I knew that if I didn’t read the stuff then, I never would.

4.  Assign each study group member one or two topics to outline and share the outlines with each other.  That will guarantee everybody has well-thought out synopses of each topic and it will force you to become much more knowledgeable about at least one or two topics.  Choose subjects to outline that you don’t know much about.  You’ll pay more attention to the material and will learn it more thoroughly.

5.  Be friendly.  You will bond will colleagues more than you may think. They’ll become an important part of your professional network and will remain so for a long, long time.

Invest the necessary time and money into CAE exam preparation.  It will pay off.

Contact David Patt, CAE:
http://www.aem-patt.com
info@aem-patt.com

The exam.. and the waiting game

By Jean Drasgow, PHR, CAE | University of Illinois

Exam Experience

Wow!  The time flew by.  I guess I was in a zone.  Once I got my exam, I marked where I needed to stop and take a stretch break.  I also had in my head where I wanted to be at what time.  I wrote the key pneumonic devises such as SPIE to help me remember basic best practices.  Honestly, the exam was not like the practice exams.  I felt it was very situational based and sometimes I didn’t like any of the options.  I tried not to change any answers because as a rule, if you change it you are more than likely to change it to the wrong answer.

I had no idea once I left if I had passed it or not.  I took the exam at a Sylvan Learning Center because I was too far from a pre-established test site.   The Sylvan Center was recommended to me by the Study group leader.  I found the Sylvan staff to be very professional and because the children who get tutored usually come after school, I was not overly distracted by additional noise.   Sylvan had a count-down clock so I could see how much time I had which was nice.  I finished with less time remaining that I expected (only about 20 minutes; I spent about 5-10 minutes looking over the few that I didn’t answer right away and turned in my exam).  Overall, I thought the Center was a perfectly fine site for the exam.

The Waiting Game

Augh!! After the exam I felt like I laid it all down & what would be, would be.  I called my study buds and kvetched for an hour.  They are an hour ahead of me so they had already had their margarita lunch.  For about 7 weeks I was able to let it go but my study buds reminded me that the time was near and I started to get anxious for the results.  Each day that it got closer to the anticipated date, I got a little more nervous.  Maybe I knew I hadn’t passed so I set it aside?  *Sigh* I really wish I would get to know when everyone else does.  I have heard from four of my friends and they have all passed.  I told my husband, “If everyone else passed and I didn’t I will feel so embarrassed.”  A good lesson, the CAE is a good goal, sometimes it takes more than one or two tried but life goes on.  You can take it again or not.

Will it be today?

My DC friends found out on Thurs. My OH and KY friends found out on Friday.  I had my results sent to work which resorts all US mail so HOPEFULLY I will know by Monday.  If I have to wait until Tuesday, I will go nuts!

RESULTS FINALLY!

My results came 8 weeks and 3 days after I took the exam.  Advice for handling the time between the exam and when you get your results: chill, have fun, and try to ignore the time.

Contact Jean Drasgow, PHR, CAE
jdrasgow@illinois.edu

Top 10 CAE Study Tips

By Trevor S. Mitchell, CAE | ARMA International

This is not an original list but a compilation of advice I received during my study process that I found helpful and wanted to share.

1. Realize that you are not going to know everything and that’s okay.
2. Know what your study habits are and what is successful for you.
3. Take time to rest and take breaks.  It’s a long process and the stress can build up if you let it.
4. Establish a schedule for yourself and stick to it.  Try not to get behind.
5. The test is just as much about how to answer the questions as it is the actual question itself.
6. Focus on one domain at a time.
7. Make sure to give the domains that you work with on a regular basis just as much focus as those that you don’t.
8. Don’t get too down in the weeds on topics.  There were times where I realized I didn’t need to get that specific on an item.
9. Have someone that you can talk with.  Many times hearing how someone else would answer a question and why was helpful in picking the question apart.
10. Bulleted lists and steps in books are a great source for test questions.

Contact Trevor S. Mitchell, CAE
trevor.mitchell@armaintl.org

CAE Tip: Take a study course!

By: Lauren Hefner, CAE | Laboratory Products Association

I can’t emphasize this enough. I can’t imagine a world in which I could have passed the CAE exam without a study course, and I’ve heard many others say the same thing.

There are no “official” study programs; even the CAE Cram Sessions from ASAE aren’t officially endorsed, because the CAE Commission themselves aren’t the ones hosting them. But having the opportunity to take practice exams, have general insight on where to read to get all of the info from the domains, etc. was helpful. Additionally, I met some amazing people who I could bounce ideas off of.  I took the MSAE course, but I know there are a lot of others  (and I’ve linked to the ASAE list of them at the top of this website).

Why are these programs so good? Because no matter how much experience you have, and no matter how amazing you are at all aspects of your job,  you are likely not an expert in the CAE exam itself. This test is HARD, guys. Not the facts – you know those or you don’t. But a lot of the exam is so qualitative. You take practice tests and you think you nailed them, and find out you got a 50% — because it’s less about how you think you should logically respond and more about how ASAE wants you to be able to reason through a situation. There could be four crappy answers; the goal is to find the least crappy answer. The word “best” vs. “first” could make a huge difference in the answer. READ READ READ.

What other study programs have you all taken and enjoyed?

 

Contact Lauren Hefner, CAE
lauren.hefner@gmail.com
@laurenhefner

My study process

By Trevor S. Mitchell, CAE | ARMA International

I’m sure that many of you reading this have being through courses/training on how to study before.  While we all approach things differently there are some similarities.  Here is how I went about the study process for my CAE exam.

Recommended Reading – ASAE puts out a great authoritative reading list.  While I did purchase the full list, I primarily used the Association Law & Update books and the Professionals Practices in Association Management book.  One of the best pieces of advice I received was to start reading these books a year before hand to be familiar with the information in them.

Study group – I recommend, and you’ll probably see it other postings, that having a study group is essential to the process.  My local SAE established a study group as one of its offerings to the members preparing for the CAE exam.  They used the study guide published by Associations Societies Alliance and established a time line for studying each domain.  We would cover a domain a week to keep on track.    Additionally they pair up the study group with a current CAE that focuses on that domain every day.  Make sure that you understand each other’s learning style to get the most out of the process.   I couldn’t imagine doing this without my study group.

Weekly Timeline – With the overall process mapped out by my study group, it was easy to focus from there.  Each week I would focus first on the recommended reading.  While I was reading I would highlight those items that I thought were relevant and important.  I would then go back through the book and create a note document of what I thought was important.  I would then review the key terms for the domain and do the self – assessment.  I wouldn’t review any test questions until our next study session were we would review and discuss them at that time.  I would add any additional information suggested from the facilitator to my notes.  Then repeat the process again the following week.  I would allow myself 1 day each week that was “study free” to be able to decompress and maintain my focus.

Week before the exam – I went through my notes and practice tests to see where I needed to focus and where I had a good grasp of the information.  I focused my time on the law as I felt that I had the best practices down.  That week I monitored the chats provided by ASAE and took the day prior to the exam off for final preparations and to relax.  I made sure to be aware of myself and how I was feeling.  At one point the day before the exam I just shut down.  I knew at that point I couldn’t study anymore and it was time to stop.

Other resources – I reviewed chats on ASAE’s and YAPStar discussion boards, practice tests that I could find from other sources, and flashcards from the Michigan Society of Association Executives.

• Discussion Boards – The discussion boards were good to see what others were asking questions about and the answers they received.  When I noticed that it was confusing my studying I would stop reviewing the comments.
• Practice Tests – This had to be the most frustrating part to me until I figure out how to best use them.  The issue with the practice tests is that you may find the same question in different tests with different answers.  The tests shouldn’t be used to measure your knowledge of the domain but rather to help you understand how questions will be asked and how to go about breaking them down.
• Flashcards – These were helpful when I was waiting on something to occur.  (at the doctor’s office, sitting around the house, on the plane, etc.).  I primarily used the electronic version that they offered as it helped me on the go but believe the physical cards were just as helpful. 

After it was all done, I don’t believe I have ever study this much for anything in my life.  In the end it is worth every minute you put into it.  I saw immediate, positive changes in different aspects of my work performance as did my employer, co-worker, and staff.

 

Contact Trevor S. Mitchell, CAE
trevor.mitchell@armaintl.org

The CAE: Not (just) your father’s or grandfather’s credential

By Aaron D. Wolowiec, MSA, CAE, CMP, CTA | Event Garde LLC

Undoubtedly, you or someone you know can relate to this statement: “I’ve fallen into the career of association management completely by accident.” I’m certainly one of those people. In fact, my first full-time job out of college was for a statewide trade association in Michigan—and they held onto me for nearly nine years before I decided to start my own professional development consulting firm.

And I’m fortunate to say that the last nine years provided me an inordinate amount of opportunity for growth and development. During that time, I had the occasion to study for and subsequently sit for the CMP exam. Upon learning that I had earned this important industry credential, I was immediately encouraged to pursue the CAE.

That certainly was a challenge I had not previously considered so early in my career, but as an association professional committed to lifelong learning—and a competitive person who rarely backs down from a challenge—I made up my mind to do just that. And I would urge others to do so early in their careers, as well.

Upon enrolling in a CAE study course, reviewing the requisite reading assignments, memorizing the all-important flash cards, engaging in thought-provoking discussion questions and taking the difficult practice exams, I earned the CAE credential about four months before my thirtieth birthday. But that’s become less and less unusual. Not only is it okay to be young and take the CAE, but it’s encouraged.

From where I sit, no longer is the CAE a “career aspiration” – something you strive to achieve toward the middle or end of your career. Rather, it’s a designation pursued more and more by young/emerging professionals early in their development as association leaders (or, more accurately, as soon as they’ve met the minimum requirements to sit for the exam).

And this is admirable. The journey toward becoming a CAE is a valuable and enlightening one that promotes self-discovery and growth. I also think the exam—and the process of studying for the exam—sets a firm foundation for future success no matter what route you choose to take on your journey through the maze that is the association industry.

That’s not to say the exam is easy, by any means. Without a doubt, it was the most challenging exam I’ve ever taken in my life (and one I didn’t expect to pass the first time around). Within a couple of weeks of taking the test on that fateful December morning, I had already begun to study again (no joke!). But I think that speaks to my commitment and belief in this valuable credential.

Nevertheless, I did pass and it was by far one of the most personally rewarding experiences of my life. To this day, I still remember opening the envelope that contained my test results—almost in slow motion. For me, it was good (no, excellent!) news. But those who don’t pass it the first time around, I have only one piece of advice: Chin up, little soldier, and take it again. (You’ll thank me in the end.)

I can tell you the exam will drive your professional self-confidence, that it garners widespread value and recognition, and that it opens doors and creates connections, but these benefits and outcomes don’t mean a thing if you’re not doing it for yourself. The reasons and motivations for pursuing the CAE must be your own. Do it for you—and nobody else (and this is much easier earlier in your career when a board of directors or an over-eager boss isn’t breathing down your neck).

I love this space we call the association community. Not only does it allow for creativity and innovation, but it serves as a significant platform upon which we forward many of today’s important social issues. I want to continue to support these endeavors in the best way I know how and I hope you plan to do the same. For me, it starts with earning the CAE.

Contact Aaron D. Wolowiec, MSA, CAE, CMP, CTA
founder and president of Event Garde LLC, a professional development consulting firm in Grand Rapids, Mich.
aaron.wolowiec@gmail.com
@aaronwolowiec
http://aaronwolowiec.com/

I Have to Take Notes?

By Lowell Aplebaum | International Facility Management Association

Studying for the CAE is no joke – that is clear.   Years working in the association world have only shown me just how much I have left to learn, and trying to prepare for the CAE highlights each of those areas where Principles of Association Management and the Association Law Book and I are going to spend WAY too much time together.

With that said, I was excited to sit down and start reading for my first domain review.  I had all the readings mapped out, and checked them off as I went through them.  At the end I felt this nice, warm sense of accomplishment – I had earned a silver star, if not a gold one (ok, maybe I glossed over a bit or two of the Association Law Book chapters – but I mean, who doesn’t?).  Then I took some review questions.

Ouch.

It has been way too many years since I was in a formal classroom and it suddenly came back to me – I may read for ideas, but I have to take notes for content – and for the application skills you need for the CAE you need the content.  Off I went to my local Staples, got a notebook, a nifty new pen, and here I am on round two of the same readings, this time furiously taking notes.

Moral of the story so far – trying to remember how you used to learn when you actually had to learn the material helps BEFORE you start your review….not back to the note taking.

Contact Lowell Aplebaum
laplebaum@gmail.com
@lowellmatthew
http://association141.blogspot.com

Final preparation, the big day, and waiting for results

By Jean Drasgow, PHR, CAE | University of Illinois

A Weekend for Cramming

About 2 weeks before the exam, I went to a cram session weekend hosted by my study group.  As a social learner, the face-to-face study session was ideal for me.  I met a neat group of people–all inspiring in their own right.  I also found value in the structured review and games.  I emphasize “review” as I felt that I was able to get more out of the session having more targeted questions than those who came less prepared.  The best part of the weekend was the interaction—especially with the instructors.  How cool are association leaders?

Final Prep for the Dreaded Exam

I finished re-reading sections of the six books that I reviewed for the CAE and reviewed my notes.  I didn’t review too many “practice tests” as I didn’t know if they were reliable/valid and also because there seemed to be different answers floating around.  I had also heard that available exams were different than the current exam content.  The study group gave us practice exams so felt prepped for the exam experience and had developed a strategy to deal with fatigue and pace myself.  The final week, I primarily read and tried to synthesize the info. and also joined an on-line chat.

So Ready

Although I felt the final week of prep flew by, the day of the exam, I was SO ready to take it.  I wanted to get on with my life.  I had been a bad wife, poor mama, and derelict housekeeper (who am I kidding, that is not the fault of studying for the exam).

Contact Jean Drasgow, PHR, CAE
jdrasgow@illinois.edu

Pace Yourself!

By Colleen Knight, CAE | ASFE/The Geoprofessional Business Association

One of the things that stood out most to me on the exam day was how ready I was for the whole CAE process to just be OVER. I had planned to take at least one bathroom break during the exam – partly because I thought I’d need to use the bathroom and partly because I figured I’d want to stand up, stretch, and take a couple deep breaths to reinvigorate/refocus myself. Ultimately, however, I ended up not even getting out of my chair once the exam started. After I passed the 3-hour mark, the constant thought I had was “you’re almost finished, why get up now and break your concentration, just stay seated and finish this thing!” I was so excited at the prospect of putting the CAE (and all of the hours/days/months of studying) behind me that I didn’t follow my plan going in to the exam.

Of course, right after I turned in my exam and left the room, I started second-guessing myself. I quickly realized I had kind of “floated through” the last 20 questions or so; for some of them I had even randomly guessed at the answer instead of going through my normal thought/elimination processes. It occurred to me that I had reached “burn-out” before the exam even started – and this manifested itself in my willingness to risk answering the last 20 questions incorrectly instead of getting up and leaving the room for 3 minutes in order to refocus and finish strong. I’m sure you can imagine how furious I was at myself. Late in the afternoon of exam day, I promised myself that when I sat for the May exam (because I was SURE I was going to have to) I would take my time to answer each question and not waste the opportunity just because I was ready for it all to be over.

Anyway, the moral of this story is two-fold: 1) pace yourself in the months leading up to the exam. There is a LOT to read and a LOT to memorize… but make sure you still have a life outside of the CAE. I put many things on hold while I was studying for the exam, so when I sat down to take it all I could think about was how I’d finally get my life back! And that made me anxious for it to be over, and therefore rush through parts of the test. Which leads me to 2) follow the plan you set for yourself on exam day. You’re thinking much more clearly during your prep for the exam than you are on exam day, so when you plan to take a break halfway through because you believe you’ll need to stretch and take deep breaths to refocus, trust your instincts and follow the plan. Fortunately I passed and those last 20 questions didn’t come back to haunt me, but if I hadn’t passed, that was one of the major things I would have done differently the second time around.

 

Contact Colleen Knight, CAE
colleen@asfe.org

Taking the plunge, and applying

By: Lauren Hefner, CAE | Laboratory Products Association

I had always assumed that the CAE credential was years decades beyond me. Most people I knew who were CAEs had a lot more experience than I did, and I knew it was an executive-level credential and never even looked into it.

About a year ago, someone asked me – “Why haven’t you taken the CAE exam? You have the experience and the education.” This floored me. I was eligible? No way. So I looked into it, and sure enough, I was. But I still put it out of my head in the short term.

Then I started meeting people and being on committees with people who held the credential and were only a few years older than I was, and at the same experience level I was (every job I’ve had, including in college, was in associations). I served on a panel with Laurie Kulikosky, CAE & Peter O’Neil, CAE on career development during the 2011 ASAE Membership, Marketing, & Communications Conference, and a few people made reference to asking “when I was going to take the CAE”.

So, I looked into it.

I talked to my boss, Clark Mulligan – he had successfully taken the exam about ten years ago and is a huge advocate for the credential (and for my professional development in general). I applied for a CAE scholarship through ASAE, and got it – this paid the $500 for my exam application fee.

So, I signed up for the MSAE study program, and applied for the exam.

Tips for applying:
-The exam application itself isn’t difficult, but it’s time-intensive. You have to document 100 hours of qualified professional development, your years of experience in association management, and a Bachelors’ degree or higher. I recommend beginning to track your professional development immediately. ASAE can help you figure out anything you’ve registered for through them.
-Education hours don’t have to be expensive. I know ASAE and a lot of state SAEs have free education opportunities (in the DC area, there are roundtables worth an hour a piece, for example). I know Higher Logic has webinars that have CAE credit with them as well.
-Don’t rely on presentation and volunteer hours – I was not able to get hours toward the exam through sitting on ASAE committees or presenting at ASAE meetings. You *do* get hours for these things once you’re already a CAE, but not before.
-Apply for the scholarship! They gave out 45 scholarships last year. That’s a HUGE number (generally, way less than 200 people take the exam). Also, filling out the scholarship app prepares you a little for the CAE app itself, since you have to outline some of your education hours.

 

Contact Lauren Hefner, CAE
lauren.hefner@gmail.com
lhefner@lpanet.org
@laurenhefner

Support: A cornerstone for success

By Trevor S. Mitchell, CAE | ARMA International

Support is one of the key elements that every CAE candidate needs to be successful during the journey of obtaining the CAE.  Here are some of the different types of support I received along my way:

From my employer – While I personally made the decision to get my CAE with or without my organizations support, I knew it would be much easier if they supported me.  When I was promoted to the Director level a year and half before I was eligible to sit for the exam, I made it known that this was one of my goals and would like the organization to support me.  My executive director was happy to hear that this was a goal of mine and was willing to support me however I needed it.  I was fortunate that my organization was willing to pay for my application fee and study group materials.  While I was one of the recipients of the ASAE Foundation scholarship for the CAE it was good to know that my organization was willing to fund this.  I was also prepared to fund this on my own as it was something I wanted and not something that my organization was requiring me to get.

From my staff and co-workers – Have the support from my staff and other co-workers was very beneficial throughout the process.  I would ask them question and test my knowledge in practical, everyday settings to aid in my learning process.  While I’m sure from time to time they would have wished I would have stopped talking about it, it was very helpful that they were so supportive.

From my mentor and other association professionals – Anyone that has gone through this process understands how critical it is that other association professionals play in this process.  I relied on my mentor and others that I knew to aid me in my studying.  They were there to fill the gaps in my knowledge on areas that my organization doesn’t cover (trade membership, certification, etc.) as well as provide a general understanding of organizational management.  Having only worked within one association, it was key for me that that I focused on best practices and not how my specific organization would do it.

From my family and friends – I believe that this was the toughest of support groups to manage.  While they were all willing to support me, most of them had no idea what I was going through or the time commitment I had to give to be successful.  I would spend countless hours reading, reviewing, re-reading, etc. and was not able to do the things that I would normally do.  The key I took away from this was on helping them to understand what was going on and how their support was helping me.

Without good support in place, you will find that this journey will be rougher than if you had it.  It all comes down to finding those that will provide you with the support you need to be successful and helping them understand what it is that you need.

 

Contact Trevor S. Mitchell, CAE
trevor.mitchell@armaintl.org

Committing to the CAE adventure

By: Jean Drasgow, PHR, CAE | University of Illinois

Self-Development

I had given my boss three developmental options for me for 2011-2012.  One option was to earn certification in project management, one was to start an MBA and the other was to earn my CAE.  He felt earning my CAE would be the most beneficial for our organization so he encouraged me to pursue it.  I applied to sit for the exam and was accepted.

Committing

Early on in my plan to study, I knew I would need help in preparing for the exam so I joined an online study group through MSAE.  Yes, it cost some dinero but the support and camaraderie (or shared misery) helped me keep on pace for a spaced learning pattern (The optimal way to learn and retain new information.)

Reality Check

I took a “practice” exam with my study group over the first three domains that we studied.  My results were so poor, I immediately signed up for a review session to be held two weeks before the exam.  I had an all or nothing attitude for this exam—I wanted to be successful the first time I took it.  So, I indulged in all the support options available.

Hard Core

My study group leader gave us the advice to find 6-8 hours of study time per week & commit to it.  My original plan was to study Friday nights and Sat. mornings.  I had planned to get three hours on Fridays and 3-4 hours on Sat.  Well, life happened like birthday parties and sleepovers so my 6-8 hours of study was often reduced to 2-3 hours.   After my first practice test I had a reality check and realized that I needed to create a better study plan.  My new plan was to wake up an hour earlier (5:30 am) Monday – Saturday .  Then I only needed to I spend an hour or so each Sat.  to answer the practice questions.  By keeping up with the reading, the study questions seemed easier.  It wasn’t always fun to get up earlier but I went to work feeling that I had accomplished something plus I was able to enjoy the weekends with my family.

 

Contact Jean Drasgow, PHR, CAE:
jdrasgow@illinois.edu

“We don’t hire do-gooders”

By: David M. Patt, CAE | Association Executive Management

“We don’t hire do-gooders”. That’s what the Search Committee chair told me between interviews for the Executive Director position at the Chicago Area Runners Association (CARA).

“But,” he added after a strategic pause, “we need your skills, and you need us on your resume.”

I had already served as Executive Director of two not-for-profit organizations and had been a President or Board member of several others.  I had recently completed a Certificate Program in Business Administration and hoped the credential would offset the public interest focus of my employment history.

Apparently, it did.

I wasn’t a runner and I didn’t know anything about running or racing.  I wasn’t familiar with the lingo and didn’t even know what a singlet was (it’s a tank top worn by runners).

I was hired for my management expertise.

I had recently joined ASAE and Association Forum of Chicagoland, having exhausted the educational opportunities in local public interest circles.  I continued my quest for advancement through learning and, after several months in the new job, applied for CAE designation.

Becoming a CAE, I believed, would embellish my professional persona and elevate my status in association management.  I also thought it might help me land another job in the future – so I’d no longer be thought of as a “do-gooder.”

—

Contact David Patt, CAE:
http://www.aem-patt.com
info@aem-patt.com

Making the decision to get my CAE!

By Trevor S. Mitchell, CAE | ARMA International
For me, this was an easy decision to make.

After being in association management for two years and attending my second ASAE annual conference in 2008, I realized that association management was the career path I wanted to take and the CAE would get me there.  I began looking into the program to understand what was required.

Doing this at such an early stage was extremely helpful, primarily in knowing how many professional development credits I needed to have to be able to apply.  I began to track my progress and make plans to ensure that I was ready when my 5 years of work experience in association management was met.  I would use this as a road map to attend some sessions and read articles on the domain areas that I needed to build my knowledge on.  During the next 3 years there were some changes to the domains and hours needed.

By tracking everything at an early stage I was able to make adjustments, had all of the necessary documents and information needed, and submitted at the appropriate time.

Contact Trevor S. Mitchell, CAE
trevor.mitchell@armaintl.org